What if you could redefine your identity beyond titles and roles? How do you know which path to take when you come upon a fork in the road along life’s journey? Join us, as we explore these profound questions with our remarkably wise guest, Dave Schutter.
From Military to Ministry – Dave Schutter’s Wisdom Journey
Our special guest Dave Schutter had his sights set on a military career, dreaming of an appointment to West Point. But God had a different plan for his life. From his dreams of West Point to a transformative mission trip to Albania, Dave’s journey is a testament to adaptability, faith and finding purpose. Together, we unravel the intricate balance of separating who we are from what we do, sharing experiences from his time as a military chaplain in Afghanistan and his work in pastoral ministry. It’s an engaging conversation steeped in life’s simple joys and the wisdom found in unexpected places.
More about Pastor Dave Schutter
Dave is a military veteran, a pastor and a pizza aficionado. Born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio, as the son of a military man, Dave dreamed of attending West Point, but a sports injury prevented him from passing the fitness entrance exam. He didn’t give up on that dream and years later Dave qualified for that appointment to the US Military Academy at West Point. But he turned down that opportunity in favor of something different.
Today, Dave leads the congregation at Northwest Presbyterian Church as Senior Pastor. Notably in Dave’s life, he served as a military Chaplain in the US Army, including an active deployment in Afghanistan. That tour of duty earned him the prestigious Bronze Star.
Dave Schutter graduated with a Master of Divinity degree from Covenant Theological Seminary in 1997 and earned a Master of Theology degree from Westminster Seminary in 2017. He completed his undergraduate studies at Miami (Ohio) University in 1993. Dave is also a contributor to the Jonathan Edwards Encyclopedia (Eerdmans, Fall 2017) and the Jonathan Edwards Global Sermon Editing Project.
Dave, his wife Kim, and their three children live in the Columbus Ohio area.
Resources
Connect with Dave on LinkedIn
Link to website for Dave’s church – Northwest Presbyterian Church
Credits
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Episode Chapters
[0:03:48] – Skip and Dave pontificate on their shared love of pizza
[0:05:48] – Dave’s family military legacy; dreams of West Point
[0:07:11] – How Skip and Dave are connected
[0:08:50] – Dave shares his main thing
[0:10:17] – Identity; Solid advice from a mentor in South Dakota
[0:14:16] – Pain points, feelings of shame and wondering if we are enough
[0:18:39] – A pivotal trip to Albania
[0:21:10] – Dave shares a final thought
Episode Keywords
Wisdom, Military, Pastoral, Ministry, Pizza, Adaptability, Identity, West Point, Faith, Resilience, Generosity, Mentorship, Purpose, Legacy, Impact, Humility, Wisdom, Challenges, Blood Cancer, Wheaton College, Friendship, Albania, Miami of Ohio, South Dakota, Columbus, Ohio
Full Transcript of Episode 125
0:00:00 – Announcer
Wisdom. It’s an incredibly valuable asset, some would say more precious than gold. It’s attractive, appealing, admirable. Conversely, a lack of wisdom is the basis of immaturity, blind spots and bad decisions. Wisdom, it can be gained over time, but it can’t be rushed. But wisdom can be shared. That’s precisely what we are here to do right now. Today. We are here to hack wisdom, to distill it, to understand it and to process it. Why? To get better at life.
Welcome to The Main Thing. This is your new nine-minute podcast. I’m your host, Skip Lineberg, and I’ve set out to interview the wisest people I know. We’ll see what we can learn from each one when they’re faced with an incredibly difficult, soul-piercing question.
0:00:58 – Skip Lineberg
I want to welcome you to the Main Thing Podcast. If we haven’t met ye, I’m Skip Lineberg. I’ll be your host for the next 25 minutes If you’re a regular, coming back again. Thank you so much for returning to this little cozy learning space that we call The Main Thing Podcast, where twice a month, we bring you a concise, valuable wisdom lesson from one of the wisest people on earth. These lessons are loaded with wisdom you can apply immediately to your life situation. Studying our guest’s wisdom and learning together, we all get a little better at life.
So I invite you into today’s conversation with our special guest, Dave Schutter. Dave is a military veteran, a pastor and a pizza aficionado. In this 25-minute episode you’ll learn about the importance of being adaptable, especially through life’s twists and turns. You’ll also learn about differentiating your personal identity from your work and how to manage both.
I want to give a special shout-out of gratitude to our newest patron, Matt from West Virginia. Matt, thank you so much for your generous support, helping to underwrite our monthly costs of production.
Here’s a bit more about our wise guest, pastor Dave Schutter. Dave was born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio. The son of a military man, Dave dreamed of attending West Point, even as a young boy; but a sports injury prevented him from passing the fitness entrance exam. He didn’t give up on that dream and years later Dave qualified for that appointment to the US Military Academy at West Point. But he turned down that opportunity in favor of something different.
Now, along the way, an overseas mission trip to Albania ignited Dave’s fire for ministry work Soon after he enrolled in seminary. Today, Dave leads the congregation at Northwest Presbyterian Church as their Senior Pastor.
Notably in Dave’s life, he served as a military Chaplain in the US Army, including an active deployment in Afghanistan. That earned him the Bronze Star.
Dave and his wife Kim and their three children live in the Columbus Ohio area. Over the next 25 minutes, you will discover why Dave Schutter is one of the wisest people I know.
0:03:16 – Skip
Dave Schutter, welcome to the Main Thing Podcast.
0:03:19 – Dave Schutter
Very glad to be here, Skip.
0:03:21 – Skip
The December snow was beautiful and it was quaint and charming and I wanted it. And then the January snow it just decimated us. We just got pounded in January, so it was brutal. And then the February snow is just so unnecessary and I’m just completely over it. That’s right, there’s nothing good about it.
0:03:43 – Dave Schutter
No, you just wanted to end.
0:03:48 – Skip
Exactly, exactly, but something I would not want to end would be pizza.
0:03:51 – Dave Schutter
Pizza should be forever. Uh, yes, maybe it’s a heavenly food. I I think we are aligned on our deep love for pizza.
0:03:58 – Skip
We are part of the pizza posse, for sure. Give me the last pizza you’re ever going to have, hypothetical, of course. Hypothetical last pizza.
0:04:10 – Dave Schutter
Hypothetical last pizza? This is going to sound more arrogant than it really needs to, but I’ve been on a quest to make pizza at home for the past couple of years, and Kim and I have had the good opportunity to travel in Italy a couple of times, so I’ve been trying to recreate at home the kinds of pizzas that you could get in Italy, and I’ll never quite get there, but it’s a worthy quest.
0:04:34 – Skip
Okay, so describe one for me.
0:04:37 – Dave Schutter
Super thin crust, kind of puffy, kind of just ridge around the outside, baked super fast at high heat, and now it’s just down to figuring out the dough. And that’s what we like to do on a Friday night or a Saturday night.
0:04:55 – Skip
I’m not into making my dough anymore, just out of convenience. But chicken with pesto would be one.
0:05:03 – Dave Schutter
Oh, that sounds nice.
0:05:05 – Skip
Oh, that sounds nice, that’s good. My wife, Lisa, has recently started making this one and she just knocked it out of the park and I keep going back to it. Which means she’s doing a chicken pizza with barbecue sauce and she does these red onions that she sautés and they cook those up a little bit and then, when they’re on top of the pizza, they crisp up real nice. It’s really good. It’s insanely good.
0:05:26 – Dave Schutter
Man, that that sounds like things I like, right there. Chicken, onion, that sounds great.
0:05:36 – Skip
So I thank the world for pizza and also thank you, dave, for your military service. I know that you served and you come from a family with a proud military heritage. Tell us a little bit about that, would you?
0:05:48 – Dave Schutter
Thanks. I think at this point I’m the third of fourth generations. My grandfather on my mom’s side was a sailor in the World War II South Pacific Navy. My dad was an army officer in the Vietnam-era army. I was actually born out at Fort Ord in California where he was serving.
And then I joined the army while I was in seminary as a chaplain candidate, and so I had the opportunity to go to my officer basic training while I was in seminary. And then the next summer do some hospital ministry training for the Army, and eventually I ended up in the Reserve and then on active duty with the Army and served active in Reserve for about 12 years. and my son currently is an infantry officer in the regular army stationed in Anchorage, Alaska.
0:06:52 – Skip
Dave, you’re a pastor and we’re going to talk about that how you got from aspirations of going to West Point and being a military cadet to being a preacher in a pulpit. We’re going to come back to that, but first I want to just help our listeners understand how you and I are connected. So we’re connected through a common friend by the name of Jeff Jarrell.
0:07:11 – Dave Schutter
Yes, so Jeff and Joyce moved up from West Virginia to our suburb of Columbus Ohio and I met Jeff, very early I think, in his relocation up here. We had breakfast and subsequently met Joyce and she’s been teaching in our preschool at the church for the past several years, and they’ve been a delightful addition and that’s how we connected. He, over breakfast, told me about this podcast and now we have a chance to be here.
0:07:39 – Skip
Yeah, we’re very blessed, and Jeff is one of my best friends. He’s been on the show twice. A great man who is, without question, unequivocally, the most generous and thoughtful person that I know.
0:07:51 – Announcer
One. Nine. Two. 192 extra minutes of wisdom that’s what you get when you become a patron of the main thing podcast. Many of you continue to say we want to hear more from these wise guests. That’s precisely what patrons of our podcast get exclusive access to bonus episodes called the Whole Thing. These 30-minute special shows bring you a deeper dive into our guests’ wisdom. Less editing, more laughter, Less time limits, more stories. Unlock those 192 extra minutes of wisdom for yourself for as little as $9 per month through the Patreon platform.
And when you become a Patron, you also get access to wisdom essays, behind the scenes glimpses and access to special patron-only wisdom gatherings. Head over to Patreon. Go. Unlock your 192 extra minutes of wisdom.
0:08:50 – Skip
Dave Schutter, what’s the main thing you’ve learned in your lifetime so far?
0:08:56 – Dave Schutter
Skip, the main thing that I’ve learned in my lifetime so far is that the identity that God gifts me, as his child, is far more significant than any identity that I can create for myself on my own. I’m deeply committed to that, and I also forget that all the time, so it’s both the wisdom that I’ve received, and it’s the wisdom that I need on a continual basis.
0:09:21 – Skip
Unpack that message for us.
0:09:24 – Dave Schutter
My wife Kim and I went to seminary fairly soon after college graduation and after seminary graduation we found ourselves church planting in rural western South Dakota. Our call at that time was to help a group of people who wanted to see a church get started in their town begin that church. We were with them for about four years as a brand new pastor, brand new ministry, family—endeavoring to start a new thing. And one of the things that I quickly realized was, not only could I not do it on my own, but that I kept getting frustrated with myself in the process.
0:10:12 – Skip
Okay. What was frustrating you? Give us a couple of examples.
0:10:17 – Dave Schutter
Realizing that when you are in a role where your main job is to serve people, there’s so little that is really in your control. And as a controlling type person, I would discover that my desired outcomes would seldom become the reality. That I was dealing with. Trying to trying to force things, I think, having unfair expectations for people, et cetera.
And so in my mind, my self-talk would very often go in the direction of oh, you’re failing at this, you’re not helpful to others, et cetera.
And just in the matter, of course, one of the older, wiser people in that group in South Dakota pulled me aside and shared some concepts with me that have become really important to him, that aren’t particularly novel. I think they’re rooted in the core of the Christian faith. And I would probably have said that I had known them intellectually, but I hadn’t actually owned them personally.
What I really came to understand and value and then cling to for the subsequent 27 years of being a pastor is that God at the outset of our relationship, gifts me with an identity as his kid, as his adopted kid—before I’ve done anything to earn approval for him. Before I’ve done anything to make him impressed by me if I could. And before I’ve done anything to disappoint him. So it’s really an identity that comes to me by grace. It’s received by me and it’s more significant than anything else that I’m going to do. That’s going to end up on my resume, end up in my LinkedIn … end up in an obituary at some point down the road. That I’m God’s kid, and he’s he’s happy with me because he’s happy with me. He loves me, because he loves me. And from that basis, I’m free to go about my day, whatever might be in it.
0:12:33 – Skip
At some point in my life … embarrassingly late in life … I came to the realization that my work is not my identity. I am not my job title. I am not what I do from nine to five. And I think those of us who are fortunate enough to learn that lesson at some point in their lives, feel much less burdened, freer.
0:12:55 – Dave Schutter
One of the things that I’ve discovered personally with regard to that is that really helps build resilience.
In 2018, I discovered that I had a blood cancer. And that came into my story from 2018 onward, and I’m doing pretty well at this point. I think it’s something I’ll always have with me, but one of the things that I observed is when your identity is tied into who you are as God’s kid at least for me, that gave me an identity and a resilience that allowed me ultimately to onboard this health challenge into my story without it becoming the dominating narrative of my story, and it’s something that’s in my life, but it’s not my life. Even in the worst case scenario, it’s not going to define me.
So over time, I can see I can see some good outcomes from it. I think I’ve developed a lot more empathy over the past five years than I probably did in the previous 40 years of my life.
0:14:16 – Skip
Dave, if someone has not yet discovered that, what are they likely to be feeling in the way of emotions, pain points, things they’re bumping into repeatedly?
0:14:26 – Dave Schutter
I think we end up with some real potential frustration. And I think particularly, but not exclusively, for guys—I think that guys tend to struggle with kind of a low-grade feeling of shame.
It might have been Brene Brown who shorthanded the concept of shame is: “Guilt is you’ve done something bad. Shame is you are someone bad.”
Guys can always wonder if we’re measuring up. We can always wonder if we are enough. And I think that that question rattles around inside us in different ways, maybe at work, maybe at home.
We wonder if we are enough. And before we resolve that a grace-rooted identity in who God says we are before that gets resolved for us, we’re going to continue to struggle with the enough question.
And so I think that someone who hasn’t come to that yet, might be struggling with some wondering about their worth and value … might be trying to create worth and value in places that aren’t ultimately going to satisfy … might be feeling just a little bit adrift in their own life.
0:15:46 – Skip
I’d love to hear you share with us about how God led you to become a pastor.
0:15:52 – Dave Schutter
Sure, I did not intend to become a pastor, certainly not in our family tree of vocations.
I really hoped to become an Army officer, and I think that this rooted back both in hearing some of my dad’s experiences. But he is a history buff, and so summer trips always revolved around going to historic locations and touring sites. So one summer that included the Military Academy at West Point, and it must have been about sixth grade or so, and we toured it and I was hooked. I said you know, that’s what I want to do. I really oriented my life towards wanting to make that happen.
And I was well through the application process my senior year of high school, when I destroyed my shoulder. I had a couple of shoulder operations—couldn’t pass the medical physical. And so I ended up going to Wheaton College in Chicago with the hope of playing football again and reapplying to West Point.
The guy who lived across the dorm hall from me dragged me to volunteer at his church’s youth group, and I really liked it. I really liked working with kids. And then, secondly, I started reading my Bible seriously.
At the same time, in parallel, I was reapplying to West Point, going through all that again, learning to use my shoulder again, getting healthy. One, I did get accepted into the military academy. And two, I was reading in the section of Isaiah, where Isaiah talks to Israel about our heart’s capacity to create idols. I was just impressed that I had made this aspiration an idol in my own heart, and not that it would be a bad thing to do. Some of my best friends are academy graduates and career officers, so it’s certainly a worthy pursuit. But for me, it had become something unhealthy, and so I declined that. Went back to Wheaton, continued to work in student ministry. Thought more and more about pastoral ministry. And then, counterintuitively, I transferred from Wheaton College to Miami University of Ohio, because I wanted to test out the idea of being a Christian in a non-Christian school environment. I ended up at Miami and got involved with campus ministry at Miami. That’s where I met Kim.
0:18:39 – Dave Schutter
While I was at Miami, 1992-ish, everything was changing in Europe. The Berlin Wall had come down. The Soviet Union was collapsing and changing, and the tiny little, very isolated Republic of Albania had overthrown their dictator. There was an opportunity for Christian missionaries to go into Albania, where there really, as far as we knew, hadn’t been much of a Christian presence. I think Albania had been officially atheist.
And so a group of us from campus went with our campus director and another campus ministry leader. And we had a chance to share the gospel with college students. On the last day at the University of Tirana … we didn’t know it was going to be the last day of our time there. That campus ended up being closed the subsequent day because of some violence.
And I’m heading back to the bus, and an Albanian student leans out of his dormitory window and he says in Albanian, “Hey, American, come here.”
And I have a translator with me, a young Albanian translator, and so we go over. And he motions us to come up to his room. And he says, “You are with the Americans who have come to talk about Jesus?”
And I say, “Yes.” He’s like, “Start talking.”
And so I start talking about basic Christianity and who Jesus is, and what he’s done for us.
And he’s he says (again, this is all through a translator), “Come here.” And we go over to his cinder block wall. He has etched, probably with a knife, into the cinder block some words in Albanian. He says, “These are the only religious words that I know. I learned them from my grandmother before the communists took over.”
It was the opening line of the Lord’s Prayer: “Our Father in Heaven.”
And he said, “I have said these words every night—that if this God exists, he would send someone to me to tell me about him. And you are that person, and now I believe in him.”
I walked out of that experience saying, “I don’t know exactly how, but I want to do that for the rest of my life.”
0:21:06 – Skip
You’ve given me chills.
0:21:10 – Skip
Let’s wrap this up with a word of encouragement or an intention that you might want to share with our audience of about a thousand wisdom-seekers, folks that want to live a better life, and folks that are focused on personal growth and development.
0:21:24 – Dave Schutter
If you’re struggling to find an identity to build your life on, you’re not alone. And so I would encourage you to keep asking: if what you’re building on is strong enough for your best day and your worst day? And if it’s not, just to keep looking and maybe to consider if there isn’t an identity that could be gifted to you that’s stronger than one that you could create for yourself.
0:21:53 – Skip
Dave, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your wisdom, sharing your wonderful personal story. We’ve learned a lot, we’ve had some great laughs, and we’ve talked about pizza, so I consider that a good day.
0:22:04 – Dave Schutter
It’s been a win, Skip. I thank you for the opportunity. It’s been a privilege to talk with you.
0:22:08 – Announcer
That goes by incredibly fast, doesn’t it? Time flies when you’re hacking wisdom.
Thank you for listening to this wisdom conversation. If you enjoyed this podcast and found the wisdom lesson valuable, then I encourage you to share it with a loved one or friend. Did you know: podcast recommendations from one person to another remain the strongest form of podcast growth worldwide? It’s true, and we’d appreciate you helping spread the good word.
Let’s give a big, hearty thank you to the crew of the Main Thing Podcast. These are the folks who truly keep the wisdom pipeline flowing Audio engineer Bob Hotchkiss, strategy advisor Andy Malinoski, public relations and partnerships guru Rachel Bell, social media and digital marketing expert Chloe Lineberg, graphic designer Emma Malinoski. And, of course, our patrons, those generous folks who provide monthly funding support to help underwrite our costs of production. I couldn’t do it without you, nor would I want to.
Your feedback matters a lot. If you have a question, a suggestion, maybe an idea—or even a nomination of a future show guest, I’d love to hear from you. Email me at info at themainthingpodcast dot com.
Well, that’s a wrap for this show. I’m your host, skip Lineberg, signing off for now and inviting you to join us again next time for another special delivery of wisdom.
0:23:45 – Skip
Hey, Skip here again. I just hopped back on for a moment to reflect on what we learned today from this wonderfully rich wisdom conversation.
Now, Dave and I battled through some pretty wicked technical difficulties prior to recording. That led to some audio quality that’s a bit below our usual standard. I’m sure you heard a couple moments of garbled audio, perhaps some static or latency. Now, those difficulties were not going to stop us from recording, nor would they dim the shine on Dave’s inspiring message or his remarkable stories.
As I reflect, today we heard tons of valuable wisdom regarding our identity, who we truly are In the lasting, eternal sense. It isn’t the title printed beneath our name on a business card or in our email signature. It’s much, much more about the impact we have on others, how we help others, lift them up, how we make others feel when we humble ourselves.
God can use every one of us to make an impact. Often, an unexpected or surprise impact, just like the one Dave had on that young Albanian college student back in the 1990s.
I’d love to hear what stood out to you, so drop me an email, and I’ll catch you again in about two weeks for another special delivery of wisdom.
Transcribed by https://podium.page
